F-35 Lighting II: The last manned fighter?

osuorsa · #1 01-14-2007, 01:47 AM

Some people think that the Lockheed F-35 Lightning II will be the last (at least American built) manned fighter to see service...

Some high-rank Britons have also stated that the Eurofighter Typhoon (and maybe the Lightning II in future) may be RAF's last manned fighter plane in favour of UCAVs.

What do you guys think of this? Will the UCAVs really be the only way in future combat aircraft and are the 5th generation really the last?

Pavel · #2 01-14-2007, 07:45 AM

In this case tanks on the battlefield should be replaced by the unmanned harware for a long time ago - it's easier then plane, no?

First of all, need to decide - by UCAV we understand remotely controlled vehicle or some kind of AI with only general instructions (go there, assault this and so on)?

Pavel · #3 01-17-2007, 08:18 AM

Ok, I will continue anyway

I don't beleive in UCAV as stand-alone force. Neither remote controlled, no with some AI.
For reckon - no problem, excellent, brilliant solution. Let it hang out somewhere there.
For precise bombing missions - yes, maybe good too. Especially with scramjet engine - yo, man. Nothing to do here. Even jammers will not help, if UCAV locked. Only global EMP blast can help.
(just in this case they will be very similar to cruise missiles. But still UCAV can return back and be reloaded)

But in terms of fighters/attack/ground support planes, where you need to act fast and intelligent I don't beleive in UCAVs.
BUT.
I do beleive in UCAVs as supporting force. F-22 is good. Two F-22 is better. Two F-22 escorted by 20 different UCAVs (recon and radars, heavy-bombers, jammers, communication and retranslation, AA-oriented, false targets, refuelling etc - can be tons of them) and such group will be almost unbeatable - at least can give two F-22 pilots even more chances to do their job.

osuorsa · #4 01-18-2007, 04:15 AM

I neither believe that the UCAV's will solely handle futures battle fields...I'm very willing to think that it still needs a human to handle many things for example to see the whole scale etc...

Some scenarios see that air forces in future will deploy more two-seater fighters to have a back-seatere for giving command to an UCAV or UAV.....

cee47 · #5 01-18-2007, 04:30 PM

This situation has arisen several times in the past, where a new-generation aircraft has threatened to be the last manned fighter!

Lockheeds' F-104 Starfighter, "The missile with the man on board" was supposed to be the last US fighter before all air combat was turned over to guided missiles.

The BAC TSR2 was supposed to be Britain's last manned air combat vehicle...

The Phantom II (F-4) was built without guns (A, B, C and D model) because missiles were the way to go

The current Typhoon in RAF service was originally ordered without guns, partly as a cost-cutting measure, but also because guns are supposedly obsolete...

And now, there is the F-22 and F-35, good for the next 50 or so years, both having guns as well as missile! Go figure!

Personally, I am much more comfortable with the "man-in-the-loop" concept, not because of reflex actions (which I'm sure computers could handle better) but because of the morality judgements which humans are able to make. . . . "is it right to be here?", " will I injure/kill those women and children?" etc.

I think that the manned fighter/ bomber will NEVER entirely disappear. UCAV's may enhance combat situations, but I don't think they will ever replace humans.

osuorsa · #6 01-19-2007, 02:25 AM

I agree with you cee47. UCAVs cannot fully replace a man/woman in a plane. Moral judgements are sometimes too hard to make from some groundbase trhough an UCAV but a human can make a much extensive view of the situation of how an attack would effect on other place and situation better than somewhat AI UCAV can.

I don't deny the benefits of UAVs and UCAVs just doubt how they manage alone...Well maybe UCAVs will never operate alone but as I told before with or trhough a direct link of a WSO on a back-seat of an two-seat fighter and giving escort etc. for the manned fighter force...

Especially I like the idea of intelligence gathering UAVs wich have better cost- efficiency in a case of loosing it and you don't loose a human life and very expensive recce plane...And to add that the UAVs like Predator has already shown how well they can operate under combat environment in Iraq and Afganistan supporting ground troops and the men who make decisions by good quality real-time pics and videos...Thus making operations much more safe and precise...These operations also saw the new-coming of ant-armour weapons attached to Predators with some success...

Lets see what the American X-45 program gives for the battle-groups...

But to be honest, I still believe that the planes built now and on design-table will be the last generation of this kind of military planes in favour of UAVs and UCAVs but not replacing the manned aircraft totally....

thomasb · #7 11-07-2007, 01:21 AM

TBwerlasdf · #8 11-21-2007, 01:18 AM

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