Me-262 - the flying legend

[Komradsky]

[quote="Pavel"]

prop fighters DID kills to the Me-262

did those prop fighters shootdown the schwalbe in air combat or when they were at their most vulnerable position, namely taking-off or landing?

[osuorsa]

2Komradsky: The Me 163 was the only other 'new' plane type to achieve air victoies with the Me 262. Germans said that 80% of the losses on this type came from the many accidents! It's Walter-rocketmotor and 'great' fuel system prooved to be more than bad! The fuel mixture was extremely high-explosive! It's said that even a small leak could have end up with a big BOOOM!

This great rocket-plane had four minutes operation time and then you had to soar back to somewhere. Most of the accident on the type happened in the take'offs and landings...Ou, yes, Allied planes shot down some of them but commonly it was to fast for them...

[Komradsky]

i've seen a documentary of the komet years back in "wings of the luftwaffe". all i can say to that is you can get more chance of killing yourself while piloting the rocket fighter due to its unstable characteristics than being shot down by the enemy ! what a waste of good pilots. though it was very fast! i'm not so sure but i remember it was the fastest fighter the luftwaffe fielded in actual combat, and it had big caliber guns too. fast, heavily armed and practically a suicide plane.

[osuorsa]

Yes, it was the fastest plane of the WW2.
BTW, when the Luftwaffe got the Me 163 into service the men who flew it were mostly young Jugend-boys with very little actual combat experience...that was unfortunately also the case of the Me 262...

[Komradsky]

maybe in the case of the komet but not in the case of the schwalbe. Me262 pilots mostly came from Fw190 and Bf109 squadrons - all very much experienced. unfortunately, only a very few schwalbes were fielded to even influence the course of the air war for the nazis. but worst of all, hitler converted the schwalbes from bomber destroyer to ground attack roles! what a damn fool :evil: ! ultimately, their fate was sealed when they declared war against the ami's, but turning a very effective bomber killer into a ground attack fighter was very foolhardy! but at least he wasn't crazy enough to turn the Ju87G into a bomber destroyer :lol: !

[osuorsa]

Noup, The first Me 262 pilots were trained from the twin-engined Bf-110 and Me-210 squadrons because 'officials' believed that they could handle the Me 262 because it also had two engines! What a great logic! Those planes were ultimately 40% slower than the Me. Think it was very problematic to fly even for experienced pilots because of the innovations in the design...

The first patch of the Me 262 was delivered to front line squadron in the middle of 1944 and at the time there were already a huge crisis of experienced pilots. These pilots from JV44, JG7 and NJG11 achieved 740 victories with the new Messerschmitt.

But there were not many old good pilots left to convert to the Me 262. There were JV 44 and Kommando Nowotny which were the most famous bunch but closing the end of the war more and more young jugend-boys arrived to fly this beast but too many died in training flight accidents due poor training...

The best Me 262 pilot, Kurt Welter achieved 20 victories and the second, Heinz Bär 16.

[Pavel]

did those prop fighters shootdown the schwalbe in air combat or when they were at their most vulnerable position, namely taking-off or landing?

No, in air combat. For sure, not in the clean duel or something. As always, pilots were using their strong sides and enemy's weak spots. Prop is good on turns and manoeuvres, Me-262 - excellent speed.
So, La-7 didn't make any races against Me-262, and Me-262 tried not to get into tight turns manoeuvring.
As far as I know it were accidental hits by the bomber gunners or hits in tail in short period while Me-262 shows its six to the La-7.
Actually it is not a big problem, even Il-2 were shooting down Me-109 and were able succesfully stand against fighters with proper tactics in group.

[Komradsky]

Originally Posted by osuorsa

Those planes were ultimately 40% slower than the Me.

those were poor fighters anyway. too heavy and clumsy. the hurricanes and spitfires got the better of them when they started going against the RAF. good thing they were re-equipped to fly the schwalbes - they had a higher chance of taking out bombers than being easily taken out by bomber escorts.

[Komradsky]

[quote="Pavel"]

For sure, not in the clean duel or something.

i would imagine so, but i never even read about it nor seen it in a documentary. downed by lucky shots, what a bad way to lose a plane.

[Komradsky]

what was that soviet fighter were even the luftwaffe was hesitant to engage in air combat? it was far superior than the Fw190. was that the Yak9? i couldn't remember.