F-22 is a big mistake?
By Pavel | May 20, 2006 on 6:30 pm | In # Avia news |
Leading US experts have an opinion that F-22 project is a critical Pentagon mistake.
Fifth-generation fighters should have very low radars visibility level, supersonic course speed, ability to spot enemy planes on very big destinations and very high manoeuvrability. By the F-22 Raptor developers words their aircraft overcame all other planes, both already created and only planned, by all that points.
But not all the people in US military environment have the same confidence. In April 2006 two leading US aviatoin experts - Pierre Sprey (his slideshow here 0.5Mb) and James Stevenson (his slideshow here 11 Mb) have reported that F-22A development is a critical Pentagon mistake and in case of full-scale war will cost America defeat in almost all air combats.
We need to mention that Sprey is established authority in US military aviation. He is very active member of the group called “Fighter mafia”. This group consist of ex-fighter jet pilots. They act as experts and analytics, having great influence on modern US aviation development process - they helped to push F-15, F-16 and A-10 programs. Stevenson is well-known too - he was leading Topgun Journal, US NAVY aviation magazine.
It is necessary to say F-22 project had opponents before this case too. But their arguments were not about bad things in this plane, but about strong sides - that this plane is too good for modern combat. They were telling in future USA will not be involved into full-scale conflict, when Raptor could find a match.
Meanwhile, planned price of the fighter (in case of 750 aircrafts contract) is 149 million dollars, and it is too high to put it into service only for US territory protection. During discussion in Pentagon it was decided to buy F-22 in limited amount. From the beginning contract value was cut to the 381 planes, afterwards - to 183. As the result aircraft price became 355 million dollars per tail. Now it is the most expensive fighter in the world.
In Sprey and Stevenson’s opinion Raptor’s designer made the same mistake as their German colleagues during WWII did, when they built jet fighter Me-262. At that time “Messerschmitt”, which meant to be the edge of aviation industry, didn’t save “Luftwaffe” to be defeated by numerous “Yaks”, “Mustangs” and “Spitfires” - Germans weren’t able to build enough amount of jet aircrafts to stand against prop fighters. US experts predict the same future for the F-22.
In his report Sprey says that every fighter should be measured by 4 points which guarantee air combat victory:
# To spot enemy first. By the experts information, from the first world war till the Vietnam from 65% to 95% of all shoot down planes were destroyed as a result of unexpected attack.
# To have bigger amount of aircrafts. The most modern planes weren’t able to help “Luftwaffe” stand out against much bigger amount of allied aircrafts.
# To have better manoeuvrability. Not by only hardware, but by pilots professional level too.
# Ability to strike enemy fast. The more aircrafts are involved into air combat, the higher probability for the pilot to became a target for the enemy, while aiming other plane.
As experts state, by all 4 points Raptor cedes to potential enemies.
First of all, “invisibility” or “stealth” ability of F-22 is a complete myth. To detect enemy plane should use radar what immediately will expose its position. Besides, together with “Stealth” technology were developed air defence technologies and today radars can “see” much better and further then before. The Yugoslavia case of 1999, when Serbian air defence shoot down stealth aircraft F-117, is proving it. Aviation radars, including modern airborne early warning systems, can detect “stealth” objects much better then old Soviet systems, as surface-to-air missile system S-125, which shoot down F-117 fighter in Yugoslavia.
Besides, today planes have much more effective missiles, guided by radio emission. “Whom you would like to be - a cop with a light on a dark alley, or hidden criminal with a gun to shoot bullets auto-targeting the light source?”. - says the expert.
Air advantage in numbers will not be achieved too because of high aircraft price. USA will not be able to build the same amount of Raptors, as the amount of built F-14, F-16, F-15 and F-18. 183 ordered aircrafts will cost about 65 billion dollars.
But US military programs have the ability to become more expansive, so final price may be ten times bigger. USA will never be able to gain air advantage in numbers with such airfleet. By the Sprey calculations since F-86 “combat effectiveness” of every dollar in aviation projects lowered down four times.
Manoeuvrability of new plane is under big question too. By their opinion constructors paid much more attention to the speed rather then manoeuvrability, and now if Raptor meets enemy in close air combat (especially if there will be more of them) it will have no chances to survive. Still Sprey and Stivenson think dogfights will be the main type of combat contact in case of full-sclaed war.
And in this case the air gun may become the main weapon. In comparison with 12mm guns, R-51 missiles with infra-red homing became twice less-effective. And again, radar homing missiles are twice less effective then infra-red homing ones.
Also, analytics mention that due to huge project budget Air Forces had to cut pilots educational programs, and it will affect on their abilities to fight maneuver combat. Sprey and Stivenson think that in future fighters will use only passive detection systems, not turning on their active radars.
In this case F-22 with modern radar will lose it’s priority and ability to strike first. In general, comparing modern US fighters characteristics with aircrafts and air defence of other countries, experts think since F-86 US fighter aviation has greatly lowered down the ability to strike first.
“The only thing which can help US stand out in this situation is big amount of F-16 on active duty by today. The day they will be retired will be the start of the Air Forces transformation into the Not-So-Air Forces.” - says Sprey.
It’s hard to argue with experts. For a very long time already it was no massive air combats between fighters. And statistical data, provided by Sprey shows that F-86 really was much more effective then its followers.
Every author’s point is very sensitive for arguments - for example, the point that Raptor can be easily hit by radar-homing missile lays down in contrary to his opinion that such missiles are not effective. Besides, modern fighters are working very close with airborne early warning systems, it allows them not use own radars at all.
The main Sprey’s thesis is that aircraft effectiveness can be measured only by its combat usage and new aircrafts evaluation criteria should be created basing on real combat experience. Very often in the past wars much more modern and advanced weapon was defeated by more simple and reliable.
And usually the main reason for it was not some designer defects, but the lack of application technology. USA and other countries are building new fighters not in a hurry. Together with aircrafts it is beeing developed supporting hardware. At the same time pilots professionalism is growing too. So all these analytics reports can be checked only in real combat environment.
Hope we will not be able to check them at all (remark by Aviapedia).
Translated from: http://www.lenta.ru/articles/2006/04/20/f22/
10 Comments »
RSS feed for comments on this post.
Leave a comment
© All rights on the information, images and videos reserved to their authors
Powered by WordPress with Pool theme design by Borja Fernandez.
Entries
and comments
feeds. ^Top^












Many points to argue in this article. All the discussions on forum, please - “F-22 is a big mistake” forum discussion
Comment by Pavel — May 22, 2006 #
It is interesting to read an article from the area of the world that builds arguably the best dogfighter…and a plane that the Raptor will likely face in some third-world conflict, the Sukhoi 27 and its later variants.
I wonder where there is a Russian expert that would say that the Sukhoi is a mistake. If you look hard enough, you can find an expert that will say what you want to hear.
That said I am a little alarmed by the cost of the Raptor and its airshow routine in comparison to the Sukhoi. I’ve seen the Raptor in person, and it (or its pilots) just doesn’t have the ability to do what the Sukhoi will do when it comes to twisting in a tight space. I’ve seen that Sukhoi flip around while inverted, roll over, and procede to point its nose, therefore gun, seemingly wherever its pilot desired. That is only an airshow, which is different than combat, but I have the feeling that the Raptor would lose in a close-in brawl. If your opponent can point his gun at you and you can’t point your gun at him…it is over for you!
I hope the Sukhoi’s pilots in some future combat with a Raptor use their RADAR first…giving the Raptor a clean target…at a range of 100 miles or so!
Regards,
Scott
Comment by Scott T. Peterson — March 1, 2007 #
By the way…as a counterpoint to my last comment: World War Two in the Pacific showed that a faster, less maneuverable, plane can rack up a very good kill ratio against a far better dogfighter. P-38s, Corsairs, and Mustangs used tactics that, for the most part, didn’t allow the nimble Zero and its friends to prevail. The “Flying Tigers” P-40s were outclassed on most performance levels AND out-numbered, but still had a fine kill ratio once they developed the correct tactics.
Regards,
Scott
Comment by Scott T. Peterson — March 1, 2007 #
F 22 has the agility of 3 generation aircraft
It’s very funny to see , like this airplane try to copy mig 29 or sukhoi 27 presentation,
I remember in the year 1998 capitain Paul Meats ( first F 22′ pilot ) talking about this F 22 , like the only one aircraft to have vectorial capacity, we knows in this moments the bests aircraft are Mig 29 ( quiet assassin )and Sukhoi 27 ( brilliance )I think those names are better that nato names for those formidables russian aircraft
Comment by ugo — March 20, 2007 #
The fact is, the F-22 would blow the Su 35 out of the sky. Why? Not only does the ‘Raptor’ have far superior avionics and targeting systems, it operates in conjunction with the JSTAR mobile radar platform. Basically, before the ‘Flanker’ even knows the ‘Raptor’ is in the air, it will already have four or more independently tracking missiles homing in on it’s VERY large, VERY distinctive radar signature.
Oh and by the way, the only reason the Serbian air defenses were able to shoot down an F-117 was because intelligence was leaked to them so they knew exactly when and where the plane would be so they fired all their AA (Anti-Aircraft) blindly in the hopes they would get lucky…and they did. What can I say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. The fact remains, if “stealth” technology was so ineffective, then why are our F-117s and B-2s able to strike with virtual impunity any target on the globe? And this is technology that is going on 20 years old!!!
Comment by Mark — May 11, 2007 #
About the F-22″raptor”,its max speed is about 1.8 Mach -2.1 mach,its maneuverability is low-starting rateo-23 degrees/sec,continuous rateo-17 degrees/sec,like some of the first Flankers.
I live in Italy and I have written that F-22 is not a good plane at all,so you cannot tell me that only the Russians tell so,AND I’m not russian.
F-22 cannot even beat a Su-27,so it’s impossible that it can beat the Su-35 which is better then the Su-27.
In Yugoslavia had take down the F-117 not because they knew when and where,but ’cause “stealth” airplanes are now unusless,thats the truth,now russian radars can detect them like normal planes.
Comment by Goran — May 12, 2007 #
dear its true that F22 is a good plane with new technology but we should admit that is has some potential deficiences. now since due to its high speed its maneuverability is low which gives Sukhoi
a upperhand in close combat.thing were F22 is superior is long range combat, russian radar have the capability to detect stealth airplanes so before F22 can enter russian airspace, using surface to air missile russian would blow them out of sky. and if Russians are able to incorporate such radar systems on their plane then F22 superiority will be completly
demolished. nextly in a practical war destruction of even single f22 will cost USA a lot due to high production cost of F22 raptor. Since Sukhoi is on a simillar project and if they able to built plane like F22 raptor with more manueverability then F22
will be outdated or of no use
Comment by Vijay — June 21, 2007 #
http://www.pogo.org/p/defense/do-000812-f22.htm#dream
just visit the web site above, there are some preatty interesting datas of F22, big misstake of USAF!!!
Comment by racerx11080 — August 16, 2007 #
People can’t predict the world we live in! Taiwan/China, Russia, Iran, etc… does not mean much to the experts. Some experts we have! They should read some history. If we learned anything from WWII it is that we must be prepared. We have seen more major conflicts recently than in the past. We just spend so much and got so good that these conflicts are over within a few weeks. Don’t be fooled. There are a lot of assumptions and most of them are wrong. So many, I don’t want to even name them all. These so called experts said almost the exact same things about the F-15. The F-15 sure came in handy with Iraq. Everytime there is a new fighter these experts same the exact same thing over and over again. Fortunately the real experts do not listen to them! People are entitled to their opinion but I sense there is some bias since the opinions are not based on any realy facts.
Comment by James — March 29, 2008 #
“f-22 is a big mistake” it might be true might be wrong, and those two experts talking might be done by US government on purpose so russians will focus on those ‘false’ disadvantages when developing their new fighters. it would help US if this article is really done by US on purpose. if it’s not then america got a problem with the phrase “f-22 air superiority fighter in the close future”.
stealth technology is useful for some planes but not really. for example, a US bomber even with LATEST stealth tech cant strike a land target and run away, impossible. its hard to strike, don’t even think about getting away.
USA and Russia are still in a race. everytime USA makes a new “poison”, Russia will make an “antipoison”. F-22 is an example. There is SU-47 berkut(Golden Eagle) is almost done with VERY special wings as an answer to american 5th generation plane. Russia also allied with india to make 5th generation plane to be able to match f-22,the “poison”. russia-india plane so called PAK FA, the “antipoison”.
Comment by NoVoice — November 11, 2008 #