Comments on: Mig-31 Foxhound video from “Smotr” tv-series http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr Aviation info Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:03:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Rakesh Krishnan http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-39428 Rakesh Krishnan Sat, 20 Sep 2008 08:43:18 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-39428 The first time two jet fighters did combat was during the India-Pakistan war in 1965. The Pakistan Air Force sent two F-104 Starfighters into western India. Two Mig-21s of the Indian Air Force were sent to intercept them. In the resulting dogfight, the Pakistanis realised they were up against a superb aircraft. Outgunned and outclassed, they attempted to flee, but the Pakistani Starfighters were outrun and shot down. One pilot bailed out over Gujarat state and was captured while the other tried to take his hit plane home. However, he had to parachute over the shark infested waters off the coast in the Arabian Sea and the body was never found. In the 1971 Indo-Pak war, India's Russian aircraft shot down the entire Pakistan Air Force within the first five days. The American F-86 Sabres and F-104 Starfighters were no match for India's MiG-21. To be fair, India also used the US made Canberra bombers but what surprised everybody was how brilliantly the Indian Air Force converted the Antonov-12 transport plane into a bomber! The remaining 12 days of the war were fought with India having total air domination. In fact, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi held an open-air rally of a million people in New Delhi. Now, that's not very common thing in war but the Indians could do it because there was nothing to fear. In fact one aircraft that was shot up on the groud in Sargodha, west Pakistan, was Chuck Yeagar's US-made plane. Yeagar was hopping mad and made an urgent request to the Nixon-Kissinger team to bomb India! India's MiG-25R Foxbat reconaissance planes fly with impunity over China and Pakistan, too fast and too high for any aircraft to intercept them. All that the Indian Air Force does is fly them in a straight line at over Mach 3 at 80,000 ft over the targets, take photographs and the aircraft returns in a straight line. Mission over in minutes, before the other guy has even time to ring the air raid siren! In September 2008, the Indian Air Force took part in the Red Flag air exercise in the US. The Americans were in India twice to do mock combat and each time the Indians flew the MiG-21 and Mirage-2000 against them. Indians knew the Americans wanted to learn about the latest Sukhoi-30 MKI. In Red Flag, India finally brought their Su-30 MKI. Much to their surprise, while the IAF Sukhois flew, they saw British (those losers!) radar tracking aircraft flying overhead. But the Indians were smart and came prepared: they flew with their much vaunted radars switched off. The Brits must have cursed the Americans for wasting their fuel! Yes, the IAF Sukhois without their radar were 'shot down' by Sam's SAMs!! But they came back without spilling their secrets! Both Russian and America have built wonderful aircraft over the past 70 years. That's the beauty of it all. The first time two jet fighters did combat was during the India-Pakistan war in 1965. The Pakistan Air Force sent two F-104 Starfighters into western India. Two Mig-21s of the Indian Air Force were sent to intercept them. In the resulting dogfight, the Pakistanis realised they were up against a superb aircraft. Outgunned and outclassed, they attempted to flee, but the Pakistani Starfighters were outrun and shot down. One pilot bailed out over Gujarat state and was captured while the other tried to take his hit plane home. However, he had to parachute over the shark infested waters off the coast in the Arabian Sea and the body was never found.

In the 1971 Indo-Pak war, India’s Russian aircraft shot down the entire Pakistan Air Force within the first five days. The American F-86 Sabres and F-104 Starfighters were no match for India’s MiG-21. To be fair, India also used the US made Canberra bombers but what surprised everybody was how brilliantly the Indian Air Force converted the Antonov-12 transport plane into a bomber! The remaining 12 days of the war were fought with India having total air domination. In fact, the Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi held an open-air rally of a million people in New Delhi. Now, that’s not very common thing in war but the Indians could do it because there was nothing to fear.

In fact one aircraft that was shot up on the groud in Sargodha, west Pakistan, was Chuck Yeagar’s US-made plane. Yeagar was hopping mad and made an urgent request to the Nixon-Kissinger team to bomb India!

India’s MiG-25R Foxbat reconaissance planes fly with impunity over China and Pakistan, too fast and too high for any aircraft to intercept them. All that the Indian Air Force does is fly them in a straight line at over Mach 3 at 80,000 ft over the targets, take photographs and the aircraft returns in a straight line. Mission over in minutes, before the other guy has even time to ring the air raid siren!

In September 2008, the Indian Air Force took part in the Red Flag air exercise in the US. The Americans were in India twice to do mock combat and each time the Indians flew the MiG-21 and Mirage-2000 against them. Indians knew the Americans wanted to learn about the latest Sukhoi-30 MKI.

In Red Flag, India finally brought their Su-30 MKI. Much to their surprise, while the IAF Sukhois flew, they saw British (those losers!) radar tracking aircraft flying overhead. But the Indians were smart and came prepared: they flew with their much vaunted radars switched off. The Brits must have cursed the Americans for wasting their fuel!

Yes, the IAF Sukhois without their radar were ’shot down’ by Sam’s SAMs!! But they came back without spilling their secrets!

Both Russian and America have built wonderful aircraft over the past 70 years. That’s the beauty of it all.

]]> By: Eternal http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-38595 Eternal Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:55:44 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-38595 Back to F-22 and MiG-31… MiG-31 is operated in a group of 4 wings. They were not only data-linked with each other but also with surface radars. Even though F-22 is stealth, they are not stealth in every aspect angles. If a MiG-31 can’t see it, there are still possible for other MiGs and surface radars to pick a spike on the F-22. For them to be detected by PVO is just a matter of time if they ever breach Russia airspace. That is about detection, whether MiG-31can effectively engage F-22 is another story. F-22 has good maneuverability and good ECM (they are not sitting duck), while the performance of MiG-31 long range AAM (R-33 and R-37) is somewhat erratic. Back to F-22 and MiG-31… MiG-31 is operated in a group of 4 wings. They were not only data-linked with each other but also with surface radars. Even though F-22 is stealth, they are not stealth in every aspect angles. If a MiG-31 can’t see it, there are still possible for other MiGs and surface radars to pick a spike on the F-22. For them to be detected by PVO is just a matter of time if they ever breach Russia airspace. That is about detection, whether MiG-31can effectively engage F-22 is another story. F-22 has good maneuverability and good ECM (they are not sitting duck), while the performance of MiG-31 long range AAM (R-33 and R-37) is somewhat erratic.

]]> By: Eternal http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-38594 Eternal Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:49:25 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-38594 Greetings! My country use both US and Russian-made aircrafts so I believe I can comment them with little bias. Dear Mr fredden, the only reason why they keep battering MiG-31 and F-22 is based on the currently most possible first encounter that will occur if F-22 attempt to intrude Russian airspace. The first VVS jets that will answer the F-22 will be MiG-31 due to its fast dashing and BVR capability to recover breached airspace. Other air wings composed of Flankers and Fulcrums will take over if the BVR warfare of MiG-31 was failed. The closest US counterpart for MiG-31 was F-14 Tomcat. However, they will never come head to head in any situation so we will just compare their specs, not ‘encounter scenario’. Both of them have almost same radar coverage (+-200 km), MiG-31 can track 10 targets simultaneously, Tomcat 24; MiG can engage 4 targets in one time, Tomcat 6… MiG-31 has better speed, better service ceiling and stronger radar, but Tomcat has better avionics, better airframe and can engage better in dogfight. Both long range AAM AIM-54 Phoenix carried by Tomcat and R-33 carried by MiG-31 are theoretically have almost equal performance, but R-33 is never been combat-proven. This is only a specs comparison and I have no intention to look down any aircraft or their weapons. Thanks dudes. Greetings! My country use both US and Russian-made aircrafts so I believe I can comment them with little bias. Dear Mr fredden, the only reason why they keep battering MiG-31 and F-22 is based on the currently most possible first encounter that will occur if F-22 attempt to intrude Russian airspace. The first VVS jets that will answer the F-22 will be MiG-31 due to its fast dashing and BVR capability to recover breached airspace. Other air wings composed of Flankers and Fulcrums will take over if the BVR warfare of MiG-31 was failed.
The closest US counterpart for MiG-31 was F-14 Tomcat. However, they will never come head to head in any situation so we will just compare their specs, not ‘encounter scenario’. Both of them have almost same radar coverage (+-200 km), MiG-31 can track 10 targets simultaneously, Tomcat 24; MiG can engage 4 targets in one time, Tomcat 6… MiG-31 has better speed, better service ceiling and stronger radar, but Tomcat has better avionics, better airframe and can engage better in dogfight. Both long range AAM AIM-54 Phoenix carried by Tomcat and R-33 carried by MiG-31 are theoretically have almost equal performance, but R-33 is never been combat-proven. This is only a specs comparison and I have no intention to look down any aircraft or their weapons. Thanks dudes.

]]> By: Scott http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-37964 Scott Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:48:09 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-37964 Both planes are excellent at what they are supposed to do I assume. What nobody has talked about it pilot training. I can only guess, but I would think that the training in the U.S. is mostly superior to Russian training. Why? $$$$$$$$. I have heard that Russia is not able to spend as much money on training as they would like. And this has got to be taken into account. A well trained pilot in a good plane could have an excellent chance against a poorly trained one in a superior airframe. Both planes are excellent at what they are supposed to do I assume. What nobody has talked about it pilot training. I can only guess, but I would think that the training in the U.S. is mostly superior to Russian training. Why? $$$$$$$$. I have heard that Russia is not able to spend as much money on training as they would like. And this has got to be taken into account. A well trained pilot in a good plane could have an excellent chance against a poorly trained one in a superior airframe.

]]> By: freddan http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-37810 freddan Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:54:21 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-37810 "Actually, there is: the American X-29A. It can pull up to 13G and has a max speed of 1,400 MPH above that it only has 30% radar detectability. So all you should give up on the MiG-31 and find out that Russain planes CRAP!!!!!!!!!!" SAAB JA37 Viggen is capable of 12 G's, SAAB 32 Lansen is capable of 12 G's, however, none of them are "stressed" to that many G's. It's a fatigue life issue. I'm sure that an F-15 could take that kind of punnishment or worse, but not without reducing the projected lifespan of the airframe! The X-29 is experimental!!! You could take more G's out of it because it's not built to last for 30 years. The wing-geometry of the X-29 alone is enough to reduce radar-signature. It's not the plane, it's the forward sweep of the wings that does it. NASA are not the only ones who have explored that particular feature. The forward sweep reduces induced drag as well so it can sustain higher continuous/instantanious turn- and climb-rates! The construction of the wing is considered by most countries to be too risky or too expensive for massproduction. Why is it that you all compare everything with the F-22. No plane has yet been built to counter the F-22! It's like comparing the Gloster Gladiator to the Bf-109. When the Mig-31 first reached the frontline squadrons, the F-22 wasn't even thought of other than some pilots dream far off in the distant future. Next thing you know you'll be asking yourselfs/eachother if the Sopwith Camel would stand a chance against an A-10 or if the Stuka could stop a Challanger II tank! “Actually, there is: the American X-29A. It can pull up to 13G and has a max speed of 1,400 MPH above that it only has 30% radar detectability. So all you should give up on the MiG-31 and find out that Russain planes CRAP!!!!!!!!!!”
SAAB JA37 Viggen is capable of 12 G’s, SAAB 32 Lansen is capable of 12 G’s, however, none of them are “stressed” to that many G’s. It’s a fatigue life issue. I’m sure that an F-15 could take that kind of punnishment or worse, but not without reducing the projected lifespan of the airframe! The X-29 is experimental!!! You could take more G’s out of it because it’s not built to last for 30 years. The wing-geometry of the X-29 alone is enough to reduce radar-signature. It’s not the plane, it’s the forward sweep of the wings that does it. NASA are not the only ones who have explored that particular feature. The forward sweep reduces induced drag as well so it can sustain higher continuous/instantanious turn- and climb-rates! The construction of the wing is considered by most countries to be too risky or too expensive for massproduction.
Why is it that you all compare everything with the F-22. No plane has yet been built to counter the F-22! It’s like comparing the Gloster Gladiator to the Bf-109. When the Mig-31 first reached the frontline squadrons, the F-22 wasn’t even thought of other than some pilots dream far off in the distant future. Next thing you know you’ll be asking yourselfs/eachother if the Sopwith Camel would stand a chance against an A-10 or if the Stuka could stop a Challanger II tank!

]]> By: Brad http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-37481 Brad Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:30:36 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-37481 I'm not talking about war, I'm talking about aircraft vs aircraft. In a scenario where the only weapons available to one combatant is the F22, and to the other is the Mig31, under current technological capabilities, who will be able to see whom first? The only correct answer to that question is the F22, unless the F22 pilot flies around with his radar systems turned off ALL THE TIME, which would make no sense, because that's the very reason for its very existence, to use its techology while at the same time avoiding the detection technology of its opponent. With respect to "the great rules of war", it was a German WWI ace pilot Boelcke who came up with one that determines outcomes of battles to this day: "see your enemy before he sees you!" KAMELRED, you do not know who I am, what I do, what I know or what kind of intelligence I am privy to. Or, for that matter, what my real name is. Who's embassy was "accidentally" bombed in Belgrade? For the rest of you, "Nothing is impervious, everyone and everythig has its weaknesses". Agreed. Technology keeps marching on. For decades, the Soviet Union had superior aircraft, while the United States had much better electronics. Stealing from one another has closed the gap in both instances. I’m not talking about war, I’m talking about aircraft vs aircraft. In a scenario where the only weapons available to one combatant is the F22, and to the other is the Mig31, under current technological capabilities, who will be able to see whom first? The only correct answer to that question is the F22, unless the F22 pilot flies around with his radar systems turned off ALL THE TIME, which would make no sense, because that’s the very reason for its very existence, to use its techology while at the same time avoiding the detection technology of its opponent. With respect to “the great rules of war”, it was a German WWI ace pilot Boelcke who came up with one that determines outcomes of battles to this day: “see your enemy before he sees you!” KAMELRED, you do not know who I am, what I do, what I know or what kind of intelligence I am privy to. Or, for that matter, what my real name is. Who’s embassy was “accidentally” bombed in Belgrade? For the rest of you, “Nothing is impervious, everyone and everythig has its weaknesses”. Agreed. Technology keeps marching on. For decades, the Soviet Union had superior aircraft, while the United States had much better electronics. Stealing from one another has closed the gap in both instances.

]]> By: S7alker http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-35675 S7alker Tue, 05 Feb 2008 00:52:06 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-35675 I simple can't believe the stealth technology is some magical techonology who will make you will the war imediatly. It doesn't happens that way. There are always counter-measures. As someone as said, if it is a peice of metal in the sky, it can be detected. I-m not saying your sources are not valid, Brad, I do think they really are saying the truth, but... I remain skeptic. I do realy think there are countermeasures for the stealth fighters. The Typhoon has already been labeled as a Raptor-Killer by official sources, and I wander what will came next. Nothing is impervious, and only tactics and even luck will determine the winner in any confrontation. USA doesnt rules, as nobody else rules. Everyone and everythig has its weaknesses. Hope you don't get me bad, I'm only making a point. I don't have nothing against any nation. But there are things I think must be said. I simple can’t believe the stealth technology is some magical techonology who will make you will the war imediatly. It doesn’t happens that way. There are always counter-measures. As someone as said, if it is a peice of metal in the sky, it can be detected.
I-m not saying your sources are not valid, Brad, I do think they really are saying the truth, but… I remain skeptic. I do realy think there are countermeasures for the stealth fighters. The Typhoon has already been labeled as a Raptor-Killer by official sources, and I wander what will came next. Nothing is impervious, and only tactics and even luck will determine the winner in any confrontation. USA doesnt rules, as nobody else rules. Everyone and everythig has its weaknesses.
Hope you don’t get me bad, I’m only making a point. I don’t have nothing against any nation. But there are things I think must be said.

]]> By: KamelRed http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-34173 KamelRed Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:17:43 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-34173 Brad, I sincerely doubt a B-2 Pilot reveled classified information to you. First off why would a B-2 pilot be in the know about classified information that doesn't even concern his airframe? And if he did know, why would he leak it to you? Brad,

I sincerely doubt a B-2 Pilot reveled classified information to you. First off why would a B-2 pilot be in the know about classified information that doesn’t even concern his airframe? And if he did know, why would he leak it to you?

]]> By: BlueICE http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-33853 BlueICE Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:57:56 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-33853 Well, after reading all this comments I have to add something. MIG 31 as well observed is a BVR hunter and most important as a failsafe in case of extreme jamming or even an alternate mode of detecting stealth airplanes has a secondary detection unit: a thermal detector that can pick up all the stealth airplanes in construction or existence. It's located in the airframe and can be deployed up to mach 3. Not that many birds have several thousand degrees...not even the american eagle. In conclusion (at least for me) I dont care how many G the aircraft can pull, or have trust vectoring controls, or stealth, in BVR mode at distances in excess of 100km this plane (MIG 31) is supreme. Well, after reading all this comments I have to add something. MIG 31 as well observed is a BVR hunter and most important as a failsafe in case of extreme jamming or even an alternate mode of detecting stealth airplanes has a secondary detection unit: a thermal detector that can pick up all the stealth airplanes in construction or existence. It’s located in the airframe and can be deployed up to mach 3. Not that many birds have several thousand degrees…not even the american eagle.
In conclusion (at least for me) I dont care how many G the aircraft can pull, or have trust vectoring controls, or stealth, in BVR mode at distances in excess of 100km this plane (MIG 31) is supreme.

]]> By: Brad http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-smotr#comment-32500 Brad Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:55:36 +0000 http://www.aviapedia.com/video/mig-31-foxhound-video-from-%e2%80%9csmotr%e2%80%9d-tv-series#comment-32500 S7alker, I read the "F22 mistake" article by Pavel. The most intelligent comment from the article was, "So all these analytics reports can be checked only in real combat environment. Hope we will not be able to check them at all". For every expert, there are other experts who disagree. The U.S. and Russia are never going to get into a battle of fighter jets. If a WWIII scenario occurs (god help us), do you really think we will be sending large numbers of F-22's to Russia and Russia sending Mig-31's & 35's to the U.S.? What's the point? The battle will end with long-range missiles equiped with nuclear warheads. I have personally witnessed an F-22 cruising along, stop on a dime, flip over 180 degrees and continue on smoothly. Very impressive. What's with all this talk about how the F-117A was shot down, as if every one has a theory. That information is classified. Recently a B-2 pilot revealed the truth to me. What you read/see in the media is what the military wants you to believe. S7alker, I read the “F22 mistake” article by Pavel. The most intelligent comment from the article was, “So all these analytics reports can be checked only in real combat environment.
Hope we will not be able to check them at all”. For every expert, there are other experts who disagree. The U.S. and Russia are never going to get into a battle of fighter jets. If a WWIII scenario occurs (god help us), do you really think we will be sending large numbers of F-22’s to Russia and Russia sending Mig-31’s & 35’s to the U.S.? What’s the point? The battle will end with long-range missiles equiped with nuclear warheads. I have personally witnessed an F-22 cruising along, stop on a dime, flip over 180 degrees and continue on smoothly. Very impressive. What’s with all this talk about how the F-117A was shot down, as if every one has a theory. That information is classified. Recently a B-2 pilot revealed the truth to me. What you read/see in the media is what the military wants you to believe.

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